Zuckerberg: “we wouldn’t share your information in a way you wouldn’t want.” Oh really?

Mark Zuckerberg has a comment up on the Facebook blog in response to the firestorm about their new terms of service:

Our philosophy is that people own their information and control who they share it with. When a person shares information on Facebook, they first need to grant Facebook a license to use that information so that we can show it to the other people they’ve asked us to share it with. Without this license, we couldn’t help people share that information.

He then goes through the simple scenario of a user sending messages and then deleting his or her account.  Should the messages disappear?  Mark says no, and notes that this is also how email works.   Of course this doesn’t have much to do with the reasons why people are upset — what about photos, for example?  What about Facebook reserving the right to sub-license, i.e. profit from, the content that’s been deleted?  Hmm.

Mark then goes on to say:

In reality, we wouldn’t share your information in a way you wouldn’t want.

Great!  I put a comment on the post* thanking him, telling him that I don’t want my information shared with advertisers, and that I want to be able to install applications without giving them access to all my data.  As far as I know, both of these are currently impossible on Facebook.  I also asked the question, with a little more detail, in a thread that a Facebook representative started up in the protest group to get feedback.

Back when I was GM of Strategy Development in Microsoft’s Online Services Group, the Windows Live organization decided that one of their key selling points would be “putting the user in control of their information”.  This led to a lot of discussions along the lines of

Jon: Does this mean users can keep their information from being shared with advertisers?

Somebody else: No, we have to be able to share info with advertisers or we can’t compete with Google and Yahoo.

Jon: Oh.  So users aren’t really “in control”, are they?

Somebody else: There’s lots of things they can control …

Well yeah, but that’s very different from being in control.  And sure enough, this approach of “we’ll tell them they’re in control even though they aren’t”  didn’t prove successful for Microsoft.

And as I pointed out in my last post, this is consistent with Facebook’s pattern of imposing harsh terms on their users and generally ignoring criticisms.  They probably don’t think of it that way of course.  After all, it was only about 5 to 10 million people who were upset about the new user interface; and hey, unless they had designed their software with this in mind, it would have cost Facebook substantial development and testing resources to make those users happy.**  So they incorporated some of the feedback, and probably saw themselves as being responsive.

Things look very different back in corporate headquarters or Davos than they do to the rest of us.  As Erick Schonfeld says on TechCrunch

Zuckerberg is saying, “Trust us.” But it is difficult to trust a company that is stripping users of rights they’ve become accustomed to, even if hardly any of them ever actually asserted those rights in practice.

Indeed.

Then again, maybe I’m being unfair, and Facebook really does intend to put users in control.  I’ll let you know if Mark gets back to me.  In the meantime, the protest group is now over 9000 members.

jon

Facebook graphic from AJC1’s flickr site, licensed under Creative Commons

* although you’ll have to take my word for it.  The Facebook blog doesn’t display comments.  It’s almost like they don’t want any public feedback there….

**   and besides, the new UI is sooooo much better from a monetization perspective


Comments

11 responses to “Zuckerberg: “we wouldn’t share your information in a way you wouldn’t want.” Oh really?”

  1. I wholeheartedly agree. As I put in my own post: 10,000 users is 0.002% of the total user base, so… big deal.

    They also appear to be “stuffing” (e.g. hiding) links to the Facebook TOS articles in the news feed. Meaning that fewer people will hear about it.

  2. Jessica F Avatar
    Jessica F

    Facebook just deleted the protest group you mentioned. If Facebook has nothing to hide, why are they trying to quash dissent? Very disturbing indeed.

  3. Jessica F Avatar
    Jessica F

    Facebook just reinstated it. This is very interesting. They seem uncertain whether they want to censor opposition or not. Stay tuned.

  4. Thanks for the comments, Kent and Jessica! Somebody from Facebook has been engaging with the group, and so it’s surprising to me that they deleted it, even if just temporarily (although who knows, it might just have been software problems or a glitch on their side). Excellent post too, Kent — I agree with your points. And thanks for the link to the LA Times article. Great summary by David Sarno:

    In that vein, it seems dubious that users will accept Zuckerberg’s entreaty to ‘just trust us’ when, in his response to user confusion and suspicion, he has skirted the very question that he would have us believe he is addressing.

    Users still don’t know why or whether Facebook keeps all their content on file without their explicit permission. Not just messages, but “photos, text, link, audio, video, designs, ads and anything else that you post on or through the Facebook Service.”

    A direct answer to these concerns might help with the trust-building.

    Yeah really.

    Speaking of which, the group’s admins did a great job summarizing the issues with 3 big questions for Facebook, and sent them on to the Facebook contact. They’ve also updated the info on the group with some choice quotes. It’s a great lesson in how to run a Facebook group effectively — I’m taking notes 🙂

  5. I also read his response as off the mark on the issues that people are upset about. I wouldn’t argue that these are complex issues, but saying “trust us” doesn’t quite sit right when at the same time they reserve the right to profit from something in perpetuity, even after I’ve left the system. That’s not, in fact, how I want them to use my information.

  6. Sarah Schmidt, in the Vancouver Sun, gives some more context about Facebook’s pattern of bad behavior, including:

    Separately, Facebook is the subject of an ongoing investigation by Canada’s privacy commissioner. Jennifer Stoddart launched an investigation last year into whether the Facebook is breaking the law when it passes on sensitive personal information to advertisers and other profit-making companies without securing meaningful consent.

    Stoddart launched the investigation after law students interning at the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic at the University of Ottawa filed a complaint, alleging 21 other violations under Canada’s Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.

    Other alleged violations include failing to destroy the personal information of users who shut down their Facebook accounts, failing to safeguard it from unauthorized access, failing to provide a valid opt-out consent to share personal information, and limiting its collection necessary for its stated purposes.

    Sarah also quotes a Rick Macl, who’s deleting his account as a result. The Fox News story earlier today similarly quoted and linked to Ed Champion’s I’m done with Facebook. Add in Adam of Emergent Chaos, the other people in Rick Macl’s thread, and the handful of people I’ve seen on Twitter who have deleted their accounts and it’s starting to look like a trend …

  7. What I find really worrisome about this is the assumption that Facebook knows your preferences and ‘what you would want.’

    This isn’t a minor privacy objection. It stems from Hayek’s critique of socialism, and the idea that a central planner can make better decisions for you than you can.

    The heart of liberty is society’s willingness to tolerate a plethora of contradictory desires, and for each of us to exercise our inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness.

    Zuckerberg thinks he’s smarter than we are. And while I’m willing to tolerate his pursuit of happiness, his right to my data ended yesterday.

  8. Carlos Cubas Avatar
    Carlos Cubas

    Resume: they wan’t to make more money using us. OK they already did, they need more, please the moment they start using my info or selling that to advertisement will quit Facebook nad that will be it, I propose we use anther site that don’t sell our data to anyone.

  9. Lies: “You hereby grant Facebook an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense)…”

    That means they can do WHATEVER THEY WANT, WITHOUT ASKING US

    Zockenberg, you are a stupidz greede animal as all the rest……

    ALL QUIT FROM FACEBOOK!!!!!

  10. The new layout of facebook is garbage. Applications take long to load and hardly work. Facebook chat is slow. Pictures are garbage. The only reason why facebook survives is because everyone has it not because of the new layout. Please do us all a favor facebook team and give us our OLD faceboook…

  11. […] Liminal states Jon’s blog, title subject to change « Zuckerberg: “we wouldn’t share your information in a way you wouldn’t want.”… […]

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