The Nexus of 2024

Insults, “mate retention behavior”, and gender violence

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by

jon
in

Continuing the theme for the day, I was looking at a couple of abstracts from Christian Jarret’s excellent BPS Research Digest:

  • Why do some men insult their partners? concludes “men who habitually insult their wives or girlfriends do so, somewhat paradoxically, as part of a broader strategy to prevent them from leaving for someone else – what evolutionary psychologists call ‘mate retention’”
  • Does your boyfriend let you out of his sight? suggests that “certain male behaviours tended to be associated with the use of violence against women.” The ones they discussed in the summary are pretty much what you’d expect: “men who were violent toward their partners also tended to use emotional manipulation (e.g. threatening to hurt themselves if their partner left them), to monopolise their partner’s time (e.g. not letting her go out without them), and/or to punish their partner’s infidelity (e.g. by becoming angry when she flirted with anyone else).” By contrast, ‘mate retention behaviors’ such as telling your partner “I love you” and spending lots of money on her* is associated with a lack of violence.

[The mate retention inventory (.doc file) makes interesting reading … too bad there’s nothing in the digest summary about the assocations of “56. Wore my partner’s clothes in front of others”. I’d really like to check out the full paper … alas, at $29.00 for the online copy, it can wait until I get to a library. But I digress.]

Of course, whether or not it’s linked to physical violence, as a mate retention behavior, insulting the other person clearly has the goal and effect of tearing down their self-esteem. So do quite a few others others on the list, such as ’17. Told other men terrible things about my partner so that they wouldn’t like her’ and the first batch of the ones listed above. By contrast things like ’58. Complimented my partner on her appearance’ and the second batch (“I love you/will spend money on you”) show appreciation and are more likely to be done in a way that builds self-esteem. My guess would be that there would be a general correlation between self-esteem-destroying mechanisms and violence … it’d be interesting to see the data. I wonder if the authors would make an anonymized version of their data available?

Anyhow. Two thought-provoking pieces of research, and an interesting synergy. Other thoughts welcome.

jon

* although presumably these results largely generalize in a gender- and orientation-independent way!

Comments

13 responses to “Insults, “mate retention behavior”, and gender violence”

  1. Joshua Allen Avatar
    Joshua Allen

    Fascinating topic. I think that looking at it as purely an equation of “does it increase or decrease my spouse’s self-esteem” is too simplistic. This is an interdependent equation. I also think it’s a stretch to say that people who lavish gifts/praise are less prone to violence, or that people who fail to lavish praise are more prone to violence. Two bits of research backed by a good deal of personal observation to support the conclusion:

    1) Violence is *highly* correlated with insecurity and low self-esteem of the person *perpetrating* the violence. How this low self-esteem of the abuser manifests can go either way — either trying to tear the other person down, or in making great sacrifices and putting them on a pedestal. Paradoxically, the abused in a codependent relationship may often be flattered by this obsessions, because she (or sometimes he) is so insecure that this level of attention is all she can trust as being “real”. It takes two to form a codependent relationship (and these are the most sickening and heart-wrenching examples of human misery you can ever be exposed to), but the larger point is that insecure people will perpetrate violence on others even outside the context of a relationship. Tons of experimental support for this, and easy to verify by pushing some drunk’s buttons at the bar.

    2) I’ve seen research which shows that the chief determinant of whether a marriage lasts is … how confident each person is that the *other* person has few better options. This is pretty profound, when you think about it. IOW, if I am overconfident about my own prospects and have an overly negative view of my wife’s prospects; and she vice-versa, we’re pretty cool. For example, if my wife makes comments such that “you would be a complete wreck without me; stuck with some psychotic tramp”, I welcome that — because that’s just what she *should* believe (and it might even be true, though she is damn luck to have me, too) 🙂

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  2. jon Avatar
    jon

    I think that looking at it as purely an equation of “does it increase or decrease my spouse’s self-esteem” is too simplistic.

    yeah, i agree that it’s not the only thing going on. since my theme for the day was gender violence i thought it was worth highlighting both because abusers (of all genders) are known for chipping away at their victims self-esteem and because the positive pscyhology movement has done a lot of studies that show healthy self-esteem is a major asset in creating a flourishing life. probably i should have phrased things as “clearly has a goal and effect of tearing down their self-esteem” … to better highlight that as you point out it’s not the only and may not be the primary one.

    For example, if my wife makes comments such that “you would be a complete wreck without me; stuck with some psychotic tramp”, I welcome that — because that’s just what she *should* believe (and it might even be true, though she is damn luck to have me, too)

    Only if you analyze things only from your perspective. In practice this may also indicate that based on “comparables” she thinks she could do a heck of a lot better than you. i mean, i had no idea about your tastes, but when i think of the guys i know who are attracted to psychotic tramps, you’re probably in the top 10% easy.*

    In any case, there are a couple of possible strategies to respond to this: raise your own level (trying to become somebody who left to your own devices wouldn’t be a complete wreck and with a psychotic tramp) or try to lower her self esteem so that she sees herself as no better than your other options (and hence having few better options of her own). As well as the obvious ethical considerations, this also has the consequence that at best you wind up a wreck in a codependent relationship with a psychotic tramp, and so it is as we say “suboptimal”. Kids, don’t try this at home.

    insecure people will perpetrate violence on others even outside the context of a relationship. Tons of experimental support for this, and easy to verify by pushing some drunk’s buttons at the bar.

    Excellent point. One of the things I was thinking about when I posted this here was the effect of these insults and other “retention behaviors” in contexts other than relationships. References to the research (and anecdotes as well) would be appreciated.

    jon

    * One would think I wouldn’t have to say this, but it can’t hurt: for those who occasionally miss the obvious: Joshua and I know each other pretty well (in fact I may well have met his wife at some event) and so I am confident that he knows no disrespect is meant by this remark. This would not be okay to say in other contexts.

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  3. Joshua Allen Avatar
    Joshua Allen

    🙂 The point here is that such comments would be designed to convince herself, not to convince me. After 10 years of marriage, she knows what stuff does and doesn’t impact my self-esteem, and she knows that my ego is ridiculously secure in the face of comments like that. There are plenty of ways she could actually tear down my self-esteem if she wanted to, so it’s safe to say that the intent in this scenario is to boost her own rather than tear down mine.

    The other subtle thing indicated by these studies, is that there need not (and indeed should not) be a completely shared understanding of one another’s worth in a relationship. In other words, there is no need for my wife to completely concur with my high opinion of myself — and in fact it would be bad if she did. If she thinks I’m lucky to have her, she’s less likely to be jealous, insecure, do possessive things, and so on. The subtle point is that it’s *her* belief about my luckiness/options that’s important — it doesn’t actually matter whether I believe that I’m lucky to have her, so long as I don’t do anything to actively dissuade her from believing it herself. And of course the same rule applies regarding my beliefs about her prospects.

    Basically, it seems that this is the stable equilibrium that emerges when both sides give up on trying to outgrow or tear down one another. It’s an equilibrium based on a teeny bit of reciporical mismatched delusion.

    (BTW, I think that “wore partner’s clothes in front of others” is a strong clue that *could* indicate that the person is in a relationship with a possessive person. I even knew one girl who had a b.f. who would make her wear his shirt in pictures, so that his claim over her would extend into any occasion that he showed someone the picture.)

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  4. jon Avatar
    jon

    Agreed about your and your wife’s interactions in the context of a relationship where you’re secure, and she’s not trying to tear down your self-esteem. It’s one of those interesting situations where the same words said by somebody else to their mate could have a very different effect: if the mate isn’t as secure as you, if the intent is to attack the other person rather than reassure onesself.

    My experiences are completely opposite. Quite a few of my friends are really incredible women and from time to time Deborah’s said things to me along the lines of “If you weren’t with me, I could really picture you with her.” This of course is verrrrry helpful to my self-esteem. In return, when I make it clear that as intriguing as the prospect is, I’m very happy I’m that the two of us are together — and mention just a few of the reasons why — it’s a boost to her self-esteem as well as (hopefully) increasing her confidence that she’s my option of choice.

    So it’s a different stable equilibrium, where we say things that actively build each other up. There may well be some reciprocal delusion here (who’s to say that these incredible woman would want to be with me?); it’s just focused positively, not negatively.

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  5. jon Avatar
    jon

    BTW, I think that “wore partner’s clothes in front of others” is a strong clue that *could* indicate that the person is in a relationship with a possessive person.

    Agreed; on the other hand, it could also be a clue that the other person is a transvestite. It’s an interesting example of how a heteronormative view (dividing the world into “men” and “women”) ignores the complexities of gender identity and expression.

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  6. Joshua Allen Avatar
    Joshua Allen

    There *is* a key commonality in the equilibriums we describe, though. Based on comments like that, Deborah is obviously secure enough not to freak out about the amazing (I concur) women who hang out with you.

    Heh, transvestite didn’t occur to me. Typically transvestites might borrow their partner’s undergarments and makeup, but would be really rare to borrow shoes, dress, blouse, ect. I guess I’ve known of it happening, and that’s certainly how many start out in front of the mirror at home. But the partner’s clothes normally don’t fit well enough to avoid disrupting the fantasy in public, so they need to go shopping before they venture out in front of others. I think the shopping trips are a typical rite of passage for transvestites. Shoes and blouses almost never fit.

    I also thought of this question in the context of gay or lesbian relationships. When one’s partner is the same size and gender as he/she is, the distinction of “wearing partner’s clothes in public” only makes sense when the partner’s clothes are seen as unique and identifiable by outsiders (otherwise, the question would say “borrowed partner’s clothes”, de-emphasizing the public nature of it). And territorial, posessive, “marking” behavior is just as common in gay and lesbian couples.

    I would note that this can be initiated by the “abused”, and needn’t only involve clothes. I knew one guy who had multiple g.f’s, and his “main” g.f. would actually steal his clothes and wear them around the apartment so that visitors would see her in them. Because then when the other girls showed up at the apartment they would see her wearing his clothes, and (presumably) realize that they were just the “other woman” since they had to bring their own clothes.

    I knew another girl who had a “friend” who would only buy her gifts that would be distinct and serve to mark her as his territory. Never anything useful or desirable on it’s own. Visible adornments for her car, living room, even tried to get her to attach a little dangly thing from his country of origin to her purse. Very creepy.

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  7. jon Avatar
    jon

    Typically transvestites might borrow their partner’s undergarments and makeup, but would be really rare to borrow shoes, dress, blouse, ect.

    Speak for yourself! Some of Deborah’s dresses, for example, look great on me. She describes most of my transvestic attire as “too slutty” for her tastes but there are a few things she’ll borrow as well. And shopping trips are even more fun when salespeople double-take on questions like “is this something we’d both wear?”

    So while I do agree that wearing the other person’s clothes can be used for marking, phrasing the question this way combines a couple of very different things. It seems to me that better way of phrasing the questions would be something along the lines of “has your partner ever asked you to wear his/her clothes in public?”

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  8. Joshua Allen Avatar
    Joshua Allen

    Yeah, definitely a bit of personal bias in my perspective. I meet very few women whose clothes could fit my broad shoulders, and none with feet as big as mine. I bet you can’t get your feet in Deborah’s shoes. Same goes for most transvestites I’ve know; I suppose it’s just a side-effect of the patriarchal, harem-keeping phase of our evolution. The research shows that size difference between male and female becomes more pronounced in harem situations.

    I think women consider *any* woman with visual appearance of excess testosterone to be “slutty”. But yes, it’s also not very common for the man to have the same taste in dresses for himself as his wife does for herself.

    But, I agree the question could be clarified to account for those situations where the man is lucky enough to share dress size and taste with his female partner 🙂

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  9. jon Avatar
    jon

    Yeah, there certainly tend to be size differences. Roughgarden discusses this in Evolution’s Rainbow and argues that this biological difference in size distribution is common across most species; she refers to this as “sex” as distinct from the more complex [but related] construct of “gender”.

    Still, most women I know — transvestites or otherwise — can find at least something of their partner’s that fits, and although it may take some creativity, so can guys. At least from the summary the question wasn’t about being completely dressed in your partner’s clothes — or even, now that I think about it, wearing them visibly.

    I think women consider *any* woman with visual appearance of excess testosterone to be “slutty”.

    Consider the classic “bearded lady” at a carnival. Did the facial hair make people see her as sluttier?

    (And a clarification: in my quote above, it’s the clothes that Deborah was describing as slutty, not me. I don’t think the clothes are particularly testosterone-heavy, really more stereotypical: ridiculously short skirts, 6″ heels, that kind of stuff.)

    jon

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  10. jon Avatar
    jon

    Back to an earlier comment of Joshua’s:

    There *is* a key commonality in the equilibriums we describe, though. Based on comments like that, Deborah is obviously secure enough not to freak out about the amazing (I concur) women who hang out with you.

    There are significant commonalities here; but there are also major differences. The “say demeaning things about your partner to reassure yourself” strategy is very close to the mate retention strategy I mentioned above: “‘17. Told other men terrible things about my partner so that they wouldn’t like her.’” Suppose your wife decided to further reassure herself about your lack of options by telling your friends “if he weren’t with me he’d be a complete wreck, stuck with a psychotic tramp” and gives lots of details why?

    In the situation where everybody involved is extremely secure — and can accurately calibrate both their own levels of self-esteem and the other person’s moods and states of mind so that they don’t say things like this when it might get taken the wrong way — the differences may not matter.

    In the aggregate, though, I bet the strategy Deborah and I prefer will lead to be noticeably higher self-esteem and happiness at the equilibrium state.

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  11. Joshua Allen Avatar
    Joshua Allen

    Yes, the strategy I’m talking about requires both parties to already have absurdly high self-esteem. By definition, when “each believes that the other couldn’t do better”, both parties have high self-esteem.

    It seems that intrinsic self-esteem is more important to the longevity of the relationship than is extrinsic self-esteem. Of course, mutual ego-stroking is enjoyable and fun and should be done liberally. But I wouldn’t want my self-esteem or my partner’s to be dependent on it. It’s just gravy.

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  12. jon Avatar
    jon

    By definition, when “each believes that the other couldn’t do better”, both parties have high self-esteem.

    Is that true? For example, suppose each person has low self-esteem, but believes that the other person is significantly “worse” than them in dimension they view as important (money, looks, family connections) and so couldn’t actually do any better.

    Or consider the case of a co-dependent relationship between a abuser (who as you point out is likely to have low self-esteem) and a victim. By controlling her and tearing her down, he’ll create a situation where he believes she can’t do better; and by playing on “you’re the only one for me”, he may will convince her that he couldn’t do better either.

    So I think you may be over-generalizing here.

    It seems that intrinsic self-esteem is more important to the longevity of the relationship than is extrinsic self-esteem. Of course, mutual ego-stroking is enjoyable and fun and should be done liberally. But I wouldn’t want my self-esteem or my partner’s to be dependent on it. It’s just gravy.

    While I totally agree about the importance of intrinsic self-esteem; I think you’re underestimating how much repeated positive external feedback can help reinforce this over time — and conversely, how much negative feedback and manipulation undercut it. Just the absence of compliments and appreciation takes a huge toll over months and years; outright attacks on self-esteem can be far worse.

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  13. Joshua Allen Avatar
    Joshua Allen

    Good point about codependent patterns (where both parties usually suffer low self-esteem). I’ve seen cases that *exactly* fit the pattern (and have longevity). So I think the pattern still holds in predicting longevity, but longevity is not necessarily the same as health.

    And if you extend the “feedback” to be more than just verbal compliments, I’ll concede that point as well. Respect, appreciation, and empathy are critical to success of a relationship — and doing things that disrespect the other person will tear down their self-esteem and upset the equilibrium.

    Perhaps the real issue here is my suspicion of verbal/written compliments. Verbal compliments are too easy to be perceived as superficial or even manipulative. “Talk is cheap”, “actions speak louder than words”, “show me, don’t tell me”, and so on. Like I said, I don’t mind having people stroke my ego, but to my thinking, receiving compliments is about as analagous to respect/admiration as watching porn is to having sex.

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